It's spooky season, and Rae and Jenna are swapping out the "splaining" for the spell-casting!
In this episode of Femsplaining, we’re flying on our broomsticks straight into the history and evolution of witches in pop culture. From the crone stirring a cauldron to the coven of empowered young women, we’re asking: why do we keep returning to the witch?
We’ll break down the icons, from the campy chaos of the Sanderson Sisters (Hocus Pocus) to the fiendishly fabulous Agatha Harkness and the classic nostalgia of the Spellman. More than just jump scares, we’ll discuss some of our favorite witchy women in pop culture and dig into the symbolism behind the pointy hats and black cats.
So light your black flame candle and join us as we celebrate the ultimate Halloween icons.
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00:00:04
You know, like, like the whole time that like we decided to
00:00:07
have this be one of our topics, I just keep thinking that
00:00:12
fucking vine of that guy screaming at his brother who
00:00:16
just like his. And her sister was a witch.
00:00:20
Please wait. Oh my God, I literally quoted
00:00:22
that last night because I was watching Wicked.
00:00:27
My my cousin is over and she hadn't seen Wicked and it was
00:00:30
literally like you see it and I'm like she came down in a
00:00:34
bubble dog. The topic is witches, in case
00:00:41
you didn't catch that. Yeah, or it's just ugly old
00:00:46
vines. That's never not funny, that
00:00:52
will never not make me laugh, and I don't think it will ever
00:00:56
not be hilarious. I think Internet comedy peaked
00:00:59
at Vine I. Think I'm going to say that
00:01:02
video, but yeah, at Vine, possibly it's possible.
00:01:08
Like nothing quite hits like old vines do all.
00:01:12
Right, that's a good topic in and of itself.
00:01:15
As we do, but I don't think that we should tangerine so early in
00:01:18
the recording. Yeah, 'cause it's gonna happen,
00:01:21
but I was trying to go with like a witchy look and accidentally
00:01:26
gave vampire instead. So I mean, it's still kind of
00:01:29
like. We spoopy up in here.
00:01:32
Yeah. I don't like have like a lot of
00:01:33
like witchy attire. So it was like more of us.
00:01:38
Like I will do Scarlet Witch adjacent vibes.
00:01:44
That see, that was smart. I was just like, I have a black
00:01:48
shirt. I'll do like some black makeup,
00:01:50
try to look a little like witchy.
00:01:52
And then I'm like so pale and my, the light in the light in
00:01:56
here like washes me out to begin with.
00:01:58
And I'm like, yeah, no, it's vampire.
00:02:00
We're we're doing vampire now. It happens.
00:02:02
It happens. I do have the Glenda tiara, but
00:02:08
I'm saving that for the Wicked episode.
00:02:13
So, so, so about Wicked. We're OK now.
00:02:16
We're tangerine. So like it not really like, So
00:02:20
yeah, in a way, it taken me like, so long to like, get into
00:02:23
Wicked. And then when someone told me
00:02:25
that like, Oh no, they're fighting over a boy and I'm just
00:02:29
like, what do you mean it's not Yuri?
00:02:32
What it is? You mean?
00:02:35
Like, wait, wait. But you did see the boy they're
00:02:37
fighting over, right? The the very.
00:02:39
I mean, yeah, yes. But it's like you, you're gonna
00:02:44
tell me that it is a Wizard of Oz college AU and it's not
00:02:48
lesbians like checked out, but it is.
00:02:52
It's so, it's so, it's so lesbian.
00:02:54
It's like it's like 2-2 lesbians like fighting over a gay man,
00:03:00
but only because they can't admit that they are in love with
00:03:03
each other. That compound.
00:03:06
But to be fair, Jonathan Bailey is so hot that everybody, it
00:03:11
doesn't matter. He's everyone's here for
00:03:14
Jonathan Bailey. I still need to watch fucking
00:03:19
Jurassic Park with him in Scarlet Joe.
00:03:22
I think I'll have like by panic, yeah.
00:03:25
I think that whenever that comes out, it might actually be out
00:03:29
again already, like it might be out streaming.
00:03:32
Streaming. It probably is.
00:03:33
It probably is I I literally. I never ever go to the theatre
00:03:38
and I literally went to the theatre to go see that because I
00:03:42
because I wanted to see Jonathan Bailey and his slutty little
00:03:45
glasses and it was worth every penny.
00:03:47
Always the slutty little glasses.
00:03:50
It was OK like this. We are a tangerine now but my
00:03:53
archangeine was it was also really good because like I'm a
00:03:57
I'm a big Jurassic Park fan like OG Jurassic Park.
00:04:05
That's really, and it was just like, it was just like really
00:04:10
giving Jurassic Park, like OG vibes.
00:04:12
It was great. Except there was no Jeff
00:04:16
Goldblum, which is always, always a negative.
00:04:21
Yeah. Yeah.
00:04:23
You're talking about two Jeff Goldblum projects in the first
00:04:26
4-5 minutes of this. I think that.
00:04:28
Sounds pretty good. Like I, I, I don't think that we
00:04:31
talk about Jeff enough. Like honestly like I think like
00:04:34
every time they release a Jurassic Park movie without Jeff
00:04:37
in it, like I think that it loses aura points.
00:04:40
Oh, automatically, like I, I, I feel like he's also always down
00:04:45
to just like show up in Jurassic Park.
00:04:50
We need a whole episode on We need a whole episode on Jeff
00:04:54
Goldblum. Honestly, I, I, I would be down.
00:04:57
Like I remember at one point, I, I don't know if it's already
00:05:00
happened or yeah, it's, it's probably like already happened
00:05:03
at this point. I'm pretty sure it was in
00:05:04
September. But like he was performing like
00:05:08
here at the Music Instrument Museum in Arizona.
00:05:12
And I'm just like, damn, 'cause like I, I analytically like,
00:05:15
like jazz. So I, I did want to go see him,
00:05:18
but I'm just like, those ticket prices were a.
00:05:23
Little too crazy. Just a little bit.
00:05:25
I just learned now. I just learned something about
00:05:27
you I didn't know that you unironically loved loved jazz.
00:05:31
So you like jazz? I know I'm just, I just picture
00:05:37
my mind just goes to Anchorman where he plays the jazz flute
00:05:40
like that's. Oh.
00:05:44
My God the Yas flute. But we're we're supposed to be
00:05:50
talking about witches because it is.
00:05:54
It is a spooky season. As Ray said, we're all getting
00:05:58
spooky up in here. The witch.
00:06:04
Yeah. So like, pop culture, there's a
00:06:06
lot of them. I mean, we already hit on the
00:06:08
wicked of it. Speaking of wicked.
00:06:11
And I did so. OK, prefacing this sort of
00:06:16
tangent, but not really. I texted Ray before we recorded
00:06:20
and I was like, hey, you need to give me the space to go on this
00:06:24
tangent for a second. And Ray of course was like, yes,
00:06:28
like defying gravity. We are saving space for this
00:06:31
tangent. We save space so next weekend is
00:06:38
OK. So another mild handed.
00:06:43
I was so disappointed that you weren't like there for San Diego
00:06:45
Comic Con. So like, because I was like
00:06:47
planning for us to like do like a little bit where we had like a
00:06:50
little sign at the Her Universe fashion show that says define
00:06:54
gravity on one of the chairs we're saving space for define
00:07:00
gravity. We I mean, even though sadly, we
00:07:04
probably won't be at a wicked theme thing again together, we
00:07:07
should just still do it anyway. We'll just do it anyway.
00:07:11
But yes, next weekend is near Comic Con.
00:07:14
And yesterday I just got confirmed as press for the has
00:07:19
been hotel season 2 panel and their press room.
00:07:23
And I was like freaking out because it's I love has been
00:07:26
hotel and I did not expect to get confirmed by Amazon Studios,
00:07:32
but the Jessica Vosk is part of the panel and the interviews and
00:07:38
I'm like, I can't, I can't I'm I'm not worthy to be in her
00:07:41
presence. She is the Alphaba, the.
00:07:45
You got to pretend that you're. Normal Oh I but I can't.
00:07:49
I know you can't. I know you can't.
00:07:52
In front of her, No how? And suddenly the questions just
00:07:56
stopped being about Hazman Hotel and we're just all about Wicked.
00:08:00
Yeah, I'm just like, hey, can you just sing Defy Gravity for
00:08:03
me, please, real quick. Immediately get escorted out of
00:08:07
the press room. I have two.
00:08:09
Hey, pennies to my name. Does this do it for you?
00:08:15
Is this enough? Yeah.
00:08:18
She. In my opinion, I mean, that's a
00:08:20
whole rabbit hole to go go down because everybody has their
00:08:23
opinion on their alphabet. But she was chef kiss for those
00:08:27
who couldn't see me. Chef kiss.
00:08:29
I really do wonder if they are actually going to like have her
00:08:32
sing in this next season. Like I I wonder what the budget
00:08:37
is for this show, like, because she's got to be expensive,
00:08:42
right? I mean, they're all Broadway.
00:08:45
They're all Broadway stars. They're all probably like.
00:08:48
Yeah, very close. Like, Alex Brightman is one of
00:08:50
like, and Jeremy Jordan, they're two of the biggest Broadway
00:08:53
stars. But like, maybe Season 1, they
00:08:56
didn't know how it was gonna go and now like season 2 will have
00:08:59
a bigger budget. Yeah.
00:09:01
I mean they got Patrick Stump from Fall Out Boy, so that must
00:09:04
mean. It's gotta be worth.
00:09:06
Something if they give Patrick Stump a solo and they don't give
00:09:12
Loot a solo. I am going to personally call it
00:09:16
Prime Video myself. There will be protests outside
00:09:21
of the Amazon building. Yeah, yeah.
00:09:25
Although that being said, I do love Fall Out Boy so.
00:09:30
Of course you know. You're so pop punk.
00:09:32
Listen, I mean, that was like emo.
00:09:36
Pop punk was like college years for me.
00:09:39
It's like perfect time. So, witches, who's your favorite
00:09:45
fictional witch? Who is my favorite fictional
00:09:50
witch? Like so I like spooky media, but
00:09:54
like I never got like super like into like witches.
00:09:58
I I it's probably Sabrina just because like I grew up with that
00:10:02
like Sabrina like was such a big staple of my childhood, like
00:10:08
those Earl like those late night sitcoms of everything.
00:10:11
So it's probably Sabrina because it's also like the cartoon was
00:10:15
involved and then like we have the remake.
00:10:18
That was kind of OK, but and it's Sabrina, what about you?
00:10:24
I'm actually really glad you said Sabrina because I was
00:10:27
thinking earlier before we recorded, I was like, we got to
00:10:30
start out talking about Sabrina. I feel like she's everyone's.
00:10:33
Everyone has Sabrina the Teenage Witch in common.
00:10:35
Like he's the common thread of All About all people for pop
00:10:41
culture witches. It was like just so, so
00:10:44
prominent in like the 90s. So it's I, I feel, I feel like
00:10:48
that's valid. And then like after that, like
00:10:50
what? What was the other like witching
00:10:52
media that we really like had like a hocus pocus in like
00:10:55
practical magic. Like the 90s was the time for
00:10:58
the witches, I feel. Right, right.
00:11:00
There's got to be some sort of like psychological reason for
00:11:05
that. Like I read one time that and,
00:11:08
and please Fact Check me on this because I read this a long time
00:11:11
ago and I don't quite know if it's true, but like vampire
00:11:16
stories, things about like vampires and monsters stories,
00:11:21
novels, TV shows, like media blow up when the economy is
00:11:27
doing poorly. And I don't know if it's like,
00:11:30
because if it's it's like some sort of escapism, I don't know.
00:11:33
Probably Sabrina and the 90s. I mean, the 90s, I think we're
00:11:37
like maybe witches mean prosperity, because the 90s, I
00:11:40
think we're pretty good, you know?
00:11:43
Is that just nostalgia talking? No, I'm talking from like a like
00:11:47
a historical sense. Like the 90s had an economic
00:11:50
boom, so maybe like 9 that witches of the 90s are a result
00:11:54
of people had money and wanted to spend it on seeing movies
00:11:58
with witches. I don't know.
00:12:00
It was a time where the future was bright and women had strong
00:12:03
ambitions of having power and therefore in media we needed to
00:12:07
punish women for having power because the power that they had
00:12:10
was evil. It's true, it's true.
00:12:14
But that being said, I don't know who my, my favorite
00:12:17
fictional witch is. You know, I have, I have a soft
00:12:21
spot in my heart for Wanda Maximoff, of course.
00:12:24
But OK, so so the then we get into the argument is like, is
00:12:29
she a witch or is she a mutant? Why not both?
00:12:38
I mean for the sake of conversation and that her
00:12:42
nickname has witch in it, we can just say well she uses magic
00:12:46
because she's I mean even though she's a mutant.
00:12:52
So, so like I haven't gotten super deep into the X-Men comics
00:12:56
because those are very daunting to me.
00:12:58
But but like is it magic or is it like a mutation like which
00:13:02
which one is? Yeah, I don't.
00:13:05
I will be the first for. I'll be the first to say I also
00:13:08
have not gotten into X-Men comics because there's just,
00:13:11
it's like there's just too much and so many things happen.
00:13:15
Like all I know is that Wanda took away all the mutants in
00:13:19
House of M and that's all that matters to me.
00:13:22
And it's just like, girl, aren't you a mutant?
00:13:23
What do you mean? So.
00:13:26
So therefore she must be. She retained magic, didn't she?
00:13:31
So she well, let's start talking.
00:13:33
OK, this is this is the comic the the comic side of Wanda.
00:13:36
But if we're going MCU side of Wanda, I say yes, 100% she's a
00:13:39
witch because. It's like a she can do.
00:13:42
Right. She can do the same stuff, if
00:13:45
not more that Agatha can do. And Agatha is not a mutant and
00:13:47
she's she's a witch. Agatha, I do very much love and
00:13:53
insert the ballot of the Witch's Road here.
00:13:58
Don't copyright as it does me. Thanks so so this is going to be
00:14:04
a stupid joke but by like that logic then is why and Stark also
00:14:09
a witch because her like their their powers are the same as
00:14:13
Wanda's but purple. I I don't think that you
00:14:18
understand that joke the way that I understand that joke.
00:14:20
I don't, but I'm sure that you will explain it to me.
00:14:26
So so it so it stems from like the whole like tower fix of of
00:14:31
like the MCU and everything where it's like commonly in YN
00:14:35
like fix for the MCU, like the the reader is like YN Stark and
00:14:42
like their. Powers is the.
00:14:45
Same as Wanda's, but purple. So like there's like been a
00:14:50
resurgence of that. So I'm just like, OK then, is
00:14:53
Wyatt Stark also a witch or is she just a super empowered
00:14:56
person? Oh, that's a good question.
00:14:59
But it sounds like they just kind of stole Billy Maximoff's
00:15:02
whole gig there because he literally has Wanda's powers but
00:15:06
Blue Magic. So actually, I think he's more
00:15:09
powerful than Wanda is, actually.
00:15:11
Yeah, isn't that yeah. He like is also destined to be
00:15:15
like a God and he's awesome. But if we're we're talking MCU
00:15:20
again, I like Oh, so Agatha all along is probably one of my
00:15:25
favorite things that marvel has done in ever, like in forever.
00:15:29
It was so good and I was so excited because one of I I don't
00:15:34
know if I would say my ultimate favorite, but it's quite
00:15:36
possible. One of my favorite wishes is
00:15:39
Billy Max Moff. I love Billy so much.
00:15:42
So like the minute the casting came out that they were like,
00:15:45
Oh, Joe Locke has been tapped to play an character in Agatha.
00:15:49
Although I'm like that boy is Billy Kaplan.
00:15:51
Like he's, he's straight out of the comic book page.
00:15:54
He looks exactly like the comic and I.
00:15:58
I was so happy when the reveal came and he had his little
00:16:02
crown. The cost was so good.
00:16:05
Oh is so good, it's so good. Stunning, it's.
00:16:12
Stunning. Oh, my camera got a little
00:16:15
funky. Hey, guys.
00:16:19
Because I was like, I was like throwing my arms around talking
00:16:21
about the crown and everything. But yes, the clothing was
00:16:26
amazing, especially the episode where they were all fictional
00:16:30
witches. They were like Glinda and the
00:16:33
old hag from Snow White and the Wicked Witch.
00:16:36
Yeah, that was really cool. See but the Snow White, she's
00:16:44
not a witch is she? Like she's just the evil
00:16:47
stepmother like but she has an attic.
00:16:52
I never considered her a witch growing up on Disney.
00:16:56
Disney fairy tales. Like the the evil step
00:16:58
stepmother. Like the Evil Queen.
00:17:00
Yeah. I guess it's really like hard to
00:17:08
to like, say, considering we don't know the full like rules
00:17:13
of, of that universe. Like like is magic like easily
00:17:18
accessible? Is it like special people can
00:17:22
like normies just have it? Is it like for for?
00:17:29
I mean, I mean I guess I would kind of consider her a witch
00:17:33
cause like she's the only one that you see use magic.
00:17:38
And that's the same with Maleficent.
00:17:40
I think that in in Sleeping Beauty.
00:17:42
Oh well, the fairies do the fairies use music, music.
00:17:44
Wow, magic. But I was thinking I just lost
00:17:50
my train of thought. But the seat you have sea witch,
00:17:52
Ursula, the sea witch, like all of the villains are are witches.
00:17:55
Which interesting. Like I guess like in a way you
00:17:59
could consider Jafar like a mage or of some sort because he does
00:18:03
use magic. So like, is every Disney villain
00:18:07
a witch? I mean by by that logic, yeah.
00:18:15
But again, like, I mean, So what is what is that saying about our
00:18:18
society that we are condemning women that have power?
00:18:23
And Jafar and Jafar and Jafar, well, Jafar, Jafar is, you know,
00:18:27
he's he's the ladies love him. So he counts.
00:18:32
You know, it's, it's totally, you know, it's one of those
00:18:36
things where it's like the more things change, the more they
00:18:38
stay the same. And I think that is throughout,
00:18:44
you know, recent, not recent throughout the history of
00:18:47
cinema, at least there, which is basically kicked off what we
00:18:53
know as modern cinema. I mean, Snow White and the Seven
00:18:58
Dwarves was what, the 1st animated film?
00:19:01
And then I think The Wizard of Oz was the first film ever in
00:19:04
color, and that was another big milestone.
00:19:07
And both of those are about witches with like they shaped
00:19:14
the trajectory of the next century of or so of
00:19:18
storytelling. I think that we just like have
00:19:21
like this deep desire of like magic.
00:19:24
I mean, if you really like because like, look at how how
00:19:28
how like much of like a cultural impact Harry Potter had like
00:19:35
literally just love magic. It's true magic is always and I
00:19:40
I think like now too, you have the there's a big trend of like
00:19:46
the fantasy, like cottage core fate Fay stories like again,
00:19:50
it's all that you hate Ray hates the Ray hate Ray hate Faye.
00:19:58
Because it's always mates. It's always mates.
00:20:04
It's like an like an animalistic kind of way and I hate it.
00:20:09
But anyway. Yeah, it's, it's that there's
00:20:11
like this huge boom of that, of that in literature right now.
00:20:17
You know, like young adult, new adult, that's like such a huge
00:20:20
thing. And, you know, I don't know if
00:20:24
it speaks to, again, like escapism or if it's more, it's
00:20:29
more like we wish we had the power to change things or like,
00:20:36
do we feel powerless? Like there's a lot of
00:20:39
psychoanalysis that should probably go into that.
00:20:43
Besides, bitches love magic. But can I love?
00:20:48
Bitches do. Bitches do love magic like.
00:20:51
Magic. How many years ago was hocus
00:20:54
pocus? And I still will.
00:20:55
Like we all still love it. But like, is it also like,
00:21:00
because of like that kind of aesthetic that we got from 90s
00:21:08
witches that we love so much? Like, would we love a futuristic
00:21:14
witch? Like if we didn't have Sabrina,
00:21:20
would we love? Like, I don't know, Alphaba, is
00:21:25
that what you're saying? Like, I mean like our attachment
00:21:29
to to like Hope Hocus Pocus in like 90s Sabrina and like
00:21:34
practical magic like it. Is it just like that general
00:21:38
aesthetic that we're clinging to, or would we also have the
00:21:41
same interest in witches if it was like in like a cyberpunk or
00:21:48
futuristic kind of setting? Yeah, I think that it has to do
00:21:53
a lot with our our coming of age, our childhood nostalgia.
00:21:57
Again, like you throw in, you know, those 3 Sabrina, practical
00:22:01
magic, Hocus Pocus, and then you throw in Harry Potter was around
00:22:04
the same time. So like millennials, Zelenials
00:22:08
even like the tale like not the tail end, but like the older end
00:22:12
of Gen. ZI guess you could say all grew
00:22:15
up on magic on on these tales of magic.
00:22:24
If you were a witch, what would your familiar be?
00:22:29
I know the answer. It's a crow.
00:22:32
Yeah, it's a crow. We already went over this.
00:22:40
We did, but the audience didn't. Yeah.
00:22:43
Like someone who is a little yapper and is stealing your
00:22:48
shiny trinkets. Yeah.
00:22:52
That's me. I recently just rewatched like
00:22:57
all of It's Always Sunny and now I keep saying protein instead of
00:23:02
protein because like Charlie and Mac make that like that like
00:23:07
energy drink or whatever that they put crows eggs in caught
00:23:11
Crotein. But my familiar would have to be
00:23:18
Black Cats. I love Black Cats.
00:23:23
Sneaky little guys. RIP Salem.
00:23:28
Oh, but Salem was like, oh, hey, Salem from Sabrina the Teenage
00:23:32
Witch was the best. Like yeah, I love seeing seeing
00:23:37
like memes now or, or like screenshots now.
00:23:40
And I'm like, Salem is so real, like so relevant. 30 year in
00:23:43
2025. Wonders why millennials are
00:23:46
like, so sassy. It's Salem.
00:23:49
Taught us and. Why we have like so much shit to
00:23:52
just say for no reason? It's just like nobody asked for
00:23:55
your commentary, but you're getting it anyway.
00:23:57
Yeah, so Salem did. I mean it also did get him
00:24:01
turned into a cat because he tried to take over the world,
00:24:04
but. Girl, me too.
00:24:06
Hasn't been there. Yeah, it's fine.
00:24:10
Just girl Boston a little too close to the sun.
00:24:13
So did they ever, like, explain, like, what the difference was
00:24:18
between the Force and the magic that the Night Sisters use in
00:24:21
Star Wars? Because technically, aren't they
00:24:22
considered witches? Yeah, they're.
00:24:27
Are I? Are they?
00:24:31
Do they call them witches? You.
00:24:33
Know like, yeah, like they, they're like, referred to as
00:24:37
like witches at certain intervals.
00:24:40
Yeah. So that's an interesting
00:24:42
question because I believe, you know, they are force users, but
00:24:47
they channel the dark side but can do like things that force
00:24:55
users can't do. They do magic, I would say.
00:24:57
Right. Yeah.
00:24:58
Like like it's coded like as magic, but I I don't know if
00:25:01
we've like they ever like touched on like what the
00:25:04
differences were. Probably not, because then
00:25:08
they'd have to explain it. And George Lucas was like, I
00:25:11
don't know, they're just just witches of death in here.
00:25:15
Because like I find that fascinating to have witches in
00:25:19
like a magic system in a way, in a story that has a
00:25:26
all-encompassing force that is through like everything.
00:25:30
And I was like, isn't that like basically the magic system of
00:25:33
like most, most like points of media where it's like, Oh yeah.
00:25:38
Like it's it's a force in a presence that just like is
00:25:44
through all living things. Right.
00:25:46
It's telekinesis. It's like all these things that
00:25:49
the Jedi literally do. But yeah.
00:25:52
And then within that, like you said, like within that, within
00:25:55
the magic system, there's a magic system.
00:25:56
It's like Russian stacking dolls.
00:26:01
Yeah, I definitely think that they're, they're witches because
00:26:04
they they do practice the occult.
00:26:07
They like, bring people back to life.
00:26:09
They can like conjure spirits. Like, they're definitely,
00:26:12
they're spooky witches. And I'm just like, is it because
00:26:16
they're all women? Because because they're all
00:26:18
women that you guys decided to make them spooky witches like
00:26:21
they're evil. But I.
00:26:23
Mean they're there are the malls people like I can't I'm blanking
00:26:30
out Zabbik right? Sure, they're not from Dathamir,
00:26:34
but they don't have magic. Yeah, no boys allowed.
00:26:45
They have a sign on that says no boys allowed.
00:26:49
No boys allowed in a witch cave. Girl.
00:26:53
Me too, Oh my God. That's funny.
00:26:57
They, I mean literally, I think, I don't know if we were talking
00:27:02
about this on the camera or not or just like between each other
00:27:04
because so much of it blends together in my head.
00:27:07
But Oh no, it was on our mini sode about things for spooky
00:27:12
season. And I was talking about
00:27:14
Bewitched and I'm like, I've never watched Bewitched.
00:27:16
And it was one of the first like big shows about witches.
00:27:22
I think it came out in 1964. And literally like 2 days after
00:27:27
I said that I like opened up Hulu and Bewitched is on.
00:27:31
It's like just started streaming on Hulu.
00:27:33
I'm like, what magic? Witch.
00:27:40
So now I have to dig into that because I always, I always
00:27:44
thought like just the bits and pieces I've seen of Bewitched,
00:27:47
like she's so cute, like Samantha's so cute.
00:27:51
I, I really do love like the sitcoms of that era, like you
00:27:54
have that have Bewitched and then like also I dream of
00:27:59
Jeannie. Like I think that those are
00:28:01
really cute. Like, but yeah, I, I, I feel
00:28:05
like we need to watch Bewitched. I feel feel like just to honor
00:28:10
the culture of which is a media. And like the cool thing about
00:28:16
it, as far as I know, again, I'm just going off of what I've
00:28:19
absorbed through cult, through pop culture.
00:28:24
She's she is good. Like she's never portrayed as
00:28:28
like this evil woman because she has power like.
00:28:31
Which is pretty honestly very forward thinking for like 1964.
00:28:37
Like I'm shocked they didn't go in another direction in the 60s
00:28:41
with. A emo.
00:28:44
Burner. She can read.
00:28:52
Not that she does magic, just that she can read.
00:28:57
Oh my God. But that's interesting though,
00:29:02
because like, you would think the 19 six, early 1960s, no
00:29:06
less, it would be a time where they would want to, you know,
00:29:12
control women more and like, that would reflect in a show
00:29:15
like that. But I don't think it does.
00:29:19
Yeah, I but but then I like I feel like it kind of like relies
00:29:23
more into like the comedic kind of angle of like her being a
00:29:28
witch rather than like. Oh yeah, like the mishaps.
00:29:32
Right, like Oh yeah, like she's actually more powerful than her
00:29:35
husband and all these other things that could be like done
00:29:39
with it, which is nice that they don't like go that angle of
00:29:44
like, Oh yeah, powerful woman is evil instead of like Oh yeah,
00:29:48
powerful woman and not so powerful man have cute
00:29:52
relationship but. Yeah, it's like, it's like the
00:29:58
that's why I loved I loved Wanda Vision so much because they
00:30:02
paid, paid homage to those classic like sitcoms like be
00:30:06
rushed with, with Agatha's and the nosy neighbor and Wanda's
00:30:10
like, oh, I don't know how I did it.
00:30:12
Like that's like that's kind of the the vibe.
00:30:15
Right. I I did some magic.
00:30:20
God, you know, I'm really sad that you haven't watched
00:30:22
American Horror Story because they have like a whole season
00:30:25
revolving around witches and it's actually probably like one
00:30:28
of their best seasons. I don't like, I really don't
00:30:34
think so. Like Kevin it, it like revolves
00:30:38
more around like the dynamics of the witches and like the history
00:30:44
of the witches and all that. Like there are like some scary
00:30:47
visuals like on occasion, but other than that, not really.
00:30:54
But again, this is this is coming from me who has a higher
00:30:57
tolerance for fever, so. Yeah, you like, you like the
00:31:01
scary stuff and I like big baby. Sorry.
00:31:04
It's OK. I'll, I'll skim the Wikipedia to
00:31:06
see if it's something that I that I would, would watch.
00:31:10
But like really good American Horror Story.
00:31:13
I think we discussed this like previously, like it always
00:31:15
really intrigued me. So like you're throwing in
00:31:17
throwing in the witches and I've heard a lot about about coven.
00:31:22
So that that's like really cool. I wonder do they do they use
00:31:29
like Salem as part of the history?
00:31:33
I think so, yeah. But like, those pieces do that,
00:31:39
yeah. Yeah.
00:31:40
But then they also like tie in like other type of like magic
00:31:44
and stuff like that and like tie in history into it as well to an
00:31:51
extent of it. It's a, it's a Ryan Murphy
00:31:53
property. So like grain of salt.
00:31:56
Lots of lots of salt, actually. Is the history, Is the history
00:32:02
really fact checked like I mean? It's television, it's fine.
00:32:08
It's it's entertainment, it's fine.
00:32:10
But no, I, I, I, I enjoyed the dynamics a lot in that, in that
00:32:16
in that particular season, in certain aspects that they
00:32:21
introduced, I love that they used Stevie Nicks as a witch.
00:32:28
They did. That's so funny.
00:32:29
That's so funny, but. Yeah, that reminds me again,
00:32:36
like I keep going back to like one division and Agatha, but
00:32:39
like that's like the vibe with Lorna Wu, you know, is like the
00:32:42
Stevie Nicks kind of like with the whole Ballad of the Witches
00:32:46
Rd. I mean, I think that that's kind
00:32:51
of it's cool. Or even when they, when Agatha,
00:32:54
they do like that montage of her going through through the
00:32:56
different decades and different centuries and she's dressed like
00:32:59
a, like a hippie kind of thing. Yeah.
00:33:04
That's really fun. But yeah, my sister is actually
00:33:09
watching The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina and I watched the
00:33:14
first season when it came out and that was like, I don't even
00:33:18
know what came out in like 2012 or 2014 or something like.
00:33:21
That don't say that. It it came out like, Oh no,
00:33:26
maybe about 2014. I could be lying, but it came
00:33:28
out a while ago, long enough that I didn't remember a lot of
00:33:30
what happened, but I thought it was interesting.
00:33:36
I was what I was kind of like passively watching the first
00:33:38
episode with her. And Sabrina is like trying to
00:33:42
explain to Harvey, like why she she's, you know, got transferred
00:33:46
to this like new school or whatever.
00:33:48
And she says like she says to him like, oh, you know how we
00:33:52
like studied Salem and they they said blah, blah, blah, blah,
00:33:54
blah. And he's like, yeah.
00:33:55
And she's like, well, there were witches in in Greendale, too.
00:34:00
They just didn't want you to know.
00:34:01
They kept practicing. And I'm like, that's kind of, I
00:34:03
kind of like that was kind of actually a really clever, yeah,
00:34:07
clever way to incorporate that. Yeah.
00:34:11
Good on them. Like, like, I like the, there
00:34:15
are little things that I like about The Chilling Adventures of
00:34:18
Sabrina. And then like, unfortunately I
00:34:21
got caught up in it because once I get into something, I kind of
00:34:26
have to like see it through within reason, and then it just
00:34:32
ends up falling short because it's written by the same man
00:34:35
that wrote fucking Riverdale and we can't have nice things.
00:34:40
No, and it's like it's that CW writing where like the Flash was
00:34:44
really good for like 3 seasons and then like Arrow was really
00:34:49
good for for like a season and 1/2 until he stopped killing
00:34:52
people. And then it was that's when it
00:34:56
got bad guys is when he stopped killing people.
00:34:59
Yeah, because like the whole thing was like he had his hit
00:35:02
list and he was like, you have failed the city and then he
00:35:04
became a pussy. So I'm talking to you, Stephen
00:35:11
and Mel. Oh my God.
00:35:14
Oh my God. I think he's kind of mean,
00:35:17
Stephen and Mel. So like, I'm kind of actually,
00:35:19
I'll take that back. Just you're not a pussy, Oliver
00:35:22
Queen is. God damn it.
00:35:29
Oh, so like, do we think though? Like is magic, does magic equate
00:35:36
with witchcraft? Or are they 2 separate things do
00:35:39
you think? Because I think that's an
00:35:42
interesting, interesting thread to pull on.
00:35:51
I think it depends on the world, doesn't it?
00:35:54
Yeah, I guess so. Because like going back to Harry
00:35:58
Potter, like if you have magic, you're a Witcher wizard, you
00:36:00
know? Yeah, and it's not necessarily
00:36:04
like the occult, like how other like witch media like portray
00:36:08
magic to be, right? Yeah, I think that's a good, a
00:36:14
good point. Like, like, yeah, like Wicked.
00:36:19
I think like they all basically are just exposed to it.
00:36:23
So like magic and witchcraft are tied together.
00:36:28
But then like if you're going with like Marvel, you have the
00:36:31
Sorcerer's Supreme and he's like the master of the Mystic arts,
00:36:34
but he's not considered a witch like he should be.
00:36:36
Basically, by that logic, he's a.
00:36:39
Sorcery. Sorcery is different than than
00:36:43
witchcraft. Explain.
00:36:47
Explain to me the difference between sorcery and witchcraft.
00:36:51
Listen, the difference is anyway one of them bruised potions.
00:36:59
And what? Oh.
00:37:05
Goodness, but like but actually, but like that that is actually
00:37:10
like a good question. Like what is the difference
00:37:11
between masters of the Mystics, Mystic arts and are magic users
00:37:16
in in the MCU? Like I I feel like it is it
00:37:21
because like magic users and like witches are more like in in
00:37:29
tune with like the mortal plane of it and sorcerers in master
00:37:34
the Mystic arts are like more more connected with the greater
00:37:40
like plot of it all essentially. I would argue they're basically
00:37:46
all witches and it's just it's just a distinction Doctor
00:37:50
Strange is probably given. Yeah, I think it's just like a
00:37:54
distinction given to the the sorcerer is just like, just
00:38:01
maybe to make it easier. I mean, I don't know how it
00:38:03
developed in the comics. I know the history of it, but
00:38:05
like for argument. 'S sake.
00:38:10
I don't know, because I mean they can open like portals.
00:38:12
That's such a witchy thing. Like what are you doing like?
00:38:16
But it's Mystic portals, they're not magic portals.
00:38:24
See the MCU gets super complicated because then you
00:38:26
throw the gods in and it's like are they magic or are they just
00:38:29
gods like and on like they're plane they're not anything
00:38:33
special. Like what?
00:38:34
Like what is that? Are they like?
00:38:37
But even in the planes is a trickster like like the like
00:38:41
they're, they're special. So I mean, it's it's not like a
00:38:46
Superman kind of thing where if you went back to Krypton, he'd
00:38:49
just be like a fucking loser. Oh my.
00:38:58
God that would be hilarious. It's just like, oh, this guy.
00:39:07
Oh, but yeah, you are, you are right.
00:39:09
And then you have like I thought of Oh my gosh, I'm like blanking
00:39:13
out. But in Thor when his mother says
00:39:16
I was raised by witches. So like that throws.
00:39:20
Why are there witches there when Asghar is like what kind of
00:39:25
witches? Is it like more of like the like
00:39:28
Wiccan kind of witches or like actual like mystical?
00:39:31
I have magic powers like witches.
00:39:35
But see, it makes me feel like the way she said it makes me
00:39:38
feel like she's talking more about like foresight and things
00:39:41
like that because, like she like Sears, you know?
00:39:44
Yeah, I, I don't know. It's like, I always pictured
00:39:49
like the the fates from Hercules.
00:39:55
I was like the one I hers. So it's it's so it's like, what
00:39:58
would you consider Sears like witches?
00:40:01
And, and I think that then it becomes like the whole like rule
00:40:04
system of it because like in certain like media, they like
00:40:09
see like the like the powers of Sears as like, oh, like that's
00:40:14
like a distinction of a type of witch.
00:40:17
So it's like, is it a witch? Does she have a pointy hat?
00:40:21
Does she have a broom? Does she have a cat?
00:40:23
Which? We need to make a flow chart.
00:40:28
Does she have a does she have a broom?
00:40:31
Yes or no? You go this way and it's like,
00:40:35
is she a woman of power? Yes.
00:40:37
Which is she evil with it? Subjective.
00:40:44
Right, evil is a point of view, because I will still argue that
00:40:50
Wanda is not a villain in Multiverse of Madness, but
00:40:53
that's for another day, another can of worms.
00:40:56
I mean, yeah, like, I think that we both agree on that.
00:40:58
But yes, it is a whole can of worms.
00:41:00
The whole treatment of Wanda in the MCU has been a can of worms.
00:41:05
But that didn't even need. To be, even though she's clearly
00:41:07
someone's favorite, she's someone's favorite, like up
00:41:10
there. So I'm just like, I don't know
00:41:11
what's happening. Oh my goodness, I, I know it's
00:41:16
that that's a whole, that's a whole another like hour long
00:41:19
discussion we can get into, but I've just always like, I, I
00:41:26
mean, I know I'm not alone. Like, because I know a lot of
00:41:28
people just have this like fascination with witches and
00:41:30
with like, which like witchcraft, but not necessarily
00:41:33
like practicing, but media consumption or stories about it
00:41:39
or. And, and I find it so
00:41:41
interesting considering that the actual like real life history of
00:41:46
it is so bleak and sad and dark and that it's now become like so
00:41:55
removed from the real thing that the real stuff doesn't.
00:42:01
It reads like fiction. You know what I'm saying?
00:42:03
People forget. I don't know.
00:42:10
Men invented witches because they wanted the women.
00:42:12
They wanted their land. Men created the the the the
00:42:24
basically like the female version of a boogeyman in real
00:42:27
women just for their own greed. Congratulations, you made women
00:42:30
power powerful all on your own. Literally, literally, at least
00:42:36
here. Like I will say, you know,
00:42:39
American history is relatively like you could consider it new
00:42:42
because compared to, you know, European, the European history,
00:42:48
Far East history, like we're only babies.
00:42:54
So like Salem witch trials aren't that far removed if you
00:42:58
compare it to like witch hunts, Yeah, of like in Europe and
00:43:04
everything that were happening God, centuries and centuries
00:43:07
before, it was always something that was happening.
00:43:13
I would have been burned at the stake.
00:43:15
Yeah, me too for sure for. Sure, she has too many it.
00:43:19
Would have been like they're like, she's a cat, she's a
00:43:22
spinster, she's. It's not the spinster.
00:43:26
Oh my God. Yeah, that's, I think that's
00:43:29
like a thing, aren't they? Like a single woman with
00:43:32
property is witch. Congratulations, I didn't know
00:43:38
that you had property. I I don't I like have.
00:43:42
See then you're not. You're not following the flow
00:43:44
chart then, so therefore you can't be witch.
00:43:46
But I have trinkets. Those are like my property.
00:43:48
That's my property. You better have like physical.
00:43:51
I don't own land. I'm not a land owning woman.
00:43:53
I. I I think like the land is like
00:43:55
the biggest thing, yeah. Because if you own land, I'm and
00:44:01
I'm a man. I want your land, woman.
00:44:06
Do you? Do you think a man can
00:44:07
appreciate a trinket? He doesn't want your trinket.
00:44:10
No, he wants your land and what do with it?
00:44:12
Probably build a like a phallic castle.
00:44:14
That's probably what's going to happen.
00:44:17
With poor construction and isn't even standing anymore.
00:44:25
If women were allowed to build things, they if the witches were
00:44:31
allowed to practice. If you are a witch, do you like
00:44:39
what would you be more of like a potions kind of witch or would
00:44:42
you be like more of like a spells kind of witch?
00:44:46
Like what's the vibe? I just think of Dorothy.
00:44:50
Are you a good witch or a bad? She's like bitch.
00:44:57
I feel like potions would have too much chemistry involved and
00:45:00
that is an automatic hard pass off for me.
00:45:04
Too much like making sure the measurements are right and like
00:45:07
beakers and shit. So you like?
00:45:09
To make I do, but then like chemistry though and like that
00:45:14
kind. Of thing, it's like the same
00:45:16
thing, just ingredients. I would, I always say I would
00:45:23
love to have the ability to teleport.
00:45:26
I don't know if that's a witchy thing, but that's something I
00:45:28
want as a magic power. But I don't know.
00:45:33
I'm like fairy godmother type, which this is.
00:45:34
You stumped me. What about you?
00:45:36
You go, you go, and I'll think. I'm going to think on this.
00:45:39
Oh oh I'm definitely like a potions and like alchemy kind of
00:45:42
witch. Like having to memorize spells
00:45:45
and shit. Fuck that.
00:45:48
That's probably what I would be doing because like the historian
00:45:51
and me would be like, oh, look at this ancient spell.
00:45:54
And because I'm stupid like that.
00:45:58
No, I don't like it's so funny because I always said I'm like,
00:46:01
I don't know why. Like I I studied history because
00:46:06
I don't remember anything. Girl, I could not tell you the
00:46:10
date things, certain things happened.
00:46:14
What kind of which is this? Yeah, I can't tell you like the
00:46:20
dates like of things like some people can.
00:46:22
They could just be like, Oh yeah, that happened.
00:46:25
I only know the Salem witch trials because I I did study
00:46:28
that like small, very short period.
00:46:32
But if somebody was like, when did the battle of, I don't know,
00:46:36
Arkansas happen? I'm like I did, I don't know.
00:46:43
So I might not all, I might not be a good spell casting witch
00:46:46
like. Are you a good witch?
00:46:53
I don't know. I'd probably be the worst witch
00:46:55
ever. Like I would be good, but I
00:46:58
would be like really bad at witchcraft.
00:47:00
I'd be like Glenda, like she's a good witch, but she can't like
00:47:03
really do magic that well. I heard that like people like
00:47:09
had the theory that like Glenda's like power is to like
00:47:15
like public perception essentially.
00:47:18
So she's like really good at PR. Yeah, in a way, Charm like, like
00:47:24
charms, kind of like enchantments.
00:47:27
Oh, we also need to talk about Charmed.
00:47:31
Well, I would like to be a witch that does like charms and
00:47:35
enchantments and stuff. Like I want to do that kind of
00:47:36
stuff. Yeah.
00:47:38
Yeah. I want to be like, I want to be
00:47:40
like the Scarlet Witch, but like without like going to like that
00:47:43
Omega level of of I don't need a spell book.
00:47:47
Yeah, I don't want the dark cold.
00:47:49
I like don't want. The dark cold.
00:47:52
You do. I don't know.
00:47:53
I don't want like the reality warping powers where I don't
00:47:56
know I'm doing it like I want, but I want that like skill set
00:48:00
of being able to like. I want the option but I won't.
00:48:04
Right, right, exactly Charmed you know, back in back in the
00:48:11
day when it was like airing, I I was really young, but I did
00:48:15
watch like I did watch it originally and I it's been so
00:48:21
long I don't. Remember, I know clearly both of
00:48:23
us didn't remember it until like we like you started saying charm
00:48:27
so. I mean, we were both like, if I
00:48:32
was really young, you were like baby Buffy was where I was at
00:48:36
though. See you now, Buffy.
00:48:38
I also was a was a little too young for and I never got into
00:48:41
Buffy and people get on me. Like people have really, really
00:48:45
strong opinions on Buffy and when they find out I haven't
00:48:48
watched it and if they're a Buffy fan, it's usually pretty
00:48:52
violent. Fair.
00:48:54
Are you going to yell at me because you're a Buffy fan?
00:48:58
No, I'm just surprised, but. I do love me Sarah Michelle
00:49:05
Gellar too, so. I know Freddie Prince Junior,
00:49:08
your wife is so cool. So I don't know what you do,
00:49:12
man. But your wife, she's cool.
00:49:15
She's she is cool and she is still fine.
00:49:19
So, yeah, you know, I, I went to a convention where like, he was
00:49:22
supposed to like, be there with like the whole Rebels cast and
00:49:25
like, I wanted to meet him so bad just so I could be like,
00:49:28
hey, can you tell your wife that I think that she's really cool.
00:49:32
That was like when when Joe Jonas was married to Sophie
00:49:37
Turner, Like, I, my cousin, my cousin to a Jonas for this
00:49:40
concert. And I was like, OK, like,
00:49:43
where's Sophie Turner? Come here for Sophie Turner.
00:49:47
God damn it. Well, that world, I mean, like
00:49:51
Game of Thrones, Yeah, Yeah. Like is there?
00:49:53
Are there witches? In Game of Thrones, I never
00:49:55
watched Game of Thrones. I I kept hearing that the the
00:49:57
finale was bad and knowing me I would get pissed off so I did
00:50:01
not invest. I personally, I think I'm in the
00:50:04
minority of I don't think the finale is bad.
00:50:06
I think people too high. I think people had too high of
00:50:10
expectations and the show had to do so much in such little time
00:50:15
that the time constraints made it what it was.
00:50:19
So like people got a little too ruffled about it.
00:50:23
But yes, there are, there are like there's like, what's her
00:50:27
name? Melisandre.
00:50:29
I think of him and she's like, she's like very morally
00:50:32
ambiguous. Like she's kind of evil, but
00:50:37
like from her perspective, she's not, you know, So there, there
00:50:42
is definitely witchcraft and there's like weird, like there's
00:50:47
like an island where you can go and learn to like take over
00:50:50
someone's likeness, kind of like a shapeshifter.
00:50:53
Like I, I don't know, Game of Thrones is crazy.
00:50:59
Girl. What yeah, it's it's crazy.
00:51:05
I you know, and I haven't watched it like I only watched
00:51:09
it as it aired. So I haven't like have the had
00:51:15
the benefit of like a rewatch to kind of like a reabsorb
00:51:17
everything that happened because I'm like, I like I don't want
00:51:20
to. I don't really want to OK,
00:51:25
because the witch like the witch I had just mentioned, like there
00:51:28
is a witch and she could like she convinces the the guy who is
00:51:34
like thinks he should one of the guys who thinks he should be
00:51:38
rightfully the king to sacrifice his like child.
00:51:41
She's like a 12 year old adorable little girl.
00:51:44
And that was the point I was like when I was actually like
00:51:47
actively watching the show, I was like, Nah, I'm done.
00:51:50
Like I stopped for like I stopped till the final season
00:51:54
because that it's like, no, I'm not as little girls burning
00:51:59
might be it for me. Oh, OK, so you say that, but
00:52:06
then Anakin can slaughter all of the yinglings.
00:52:09
OK, Yeah, OK. I I OK.
00:52:12
I just wanted to. But you don't see it.
00:52:14
You don't see Anakin do it. I think if and even if you did,
00:52:18
it wouldn't be bloody because it's lightsabers.
00:52:20
And they, like, caught her eyes. They're just like, dead.
00:52:22
But she, like, they like, straight up showed this little
00:52:25
girl on a pyre being burned. Yeah, it was fucked.
00:52:28
It was really. And then then they had to go and
00:52:33
kill Pedro Pascal. Oh, what's even the point of
00:52:37
watching it after that point? Yeah, it's like the show that
00:52:40
was like one that was the only, only scene in the show, the only
00:52:43
death scene that I actually like, turned away and couldn't
00:52:46
watch it was it was gross, which is also what I did when they
00:52:50
killed him off in The Last of Us.
00:52:53
I was like, I just like, looked away.
00:52:54
I couldn't watch it because it was so gruesome.
00:52:57
Yeah. Jesus Christ, Pedro, be out
00:53:00
there dying all the time. Gruesome ways.
00:53:03
Yeah. Our poor man's.
00:53:08
But has Oscar Isaac ever been a witch?
00:53:10
Now that we're, you know, we've got on Pedro, we got to get on
00:53:12
Oscar has Oscar or Warlock. Been a witch.
00:53:19
I know that at one point he was in talks to being Doctor
00:53:22
Strange, and I'm still kind of sad about that, but.
00:53:27
I could see it. Yeah, I don't think that he has.
00:53:32
But he is about to become slutty Victor Frankenstein, which I'm
00:53:36
very. Excited.
00:53:37
No, I think like it's going to be in theaters like in a little
00:53:40
over a week. I'm so excited for that Like,
00:53:45
and that's not something that's like typically like the the
00:53:49
movie itself is not something that's typically like in my
00:53:51
lane. I do love Frankenstein, the
00:53:53
novel. Like, I really, really like the
00:53:55
book, but like, as soon as I saw the clip of somebody being like,
00:54:02
oh, so we're getting slutty Victor Frankenstein, I'm like, I
00:54:05
mean, I'm in. He would be a waste if he like
00:54:08
wasn't a little slutty, you know?
00:54:15
I I wish I was a witch so I could use like mind powers like
00:54:20
Wanda does and have someone in Hollywood make Pedro Pascal an
00:54:23
Oscar Isaac kiss. Congratulations guys, I did it
00:54:26
again. Ding Ding, weed a bell, Ding
00:54:31
Ding, like every time you do it. But yeah, I mean that would be a
00:54:39
pretty good use of your witch powers.
00:54:42
Yeah. I don't want to read people's
00:54:45
minds, I'll tell you that much. I don't want to know what you're
00:54:47
thinking. I have enough thoughts in my own
00:54:48
head that I don't. I don't want to deal with like I
00:54:50
don't need to deal with yours either.
00:54:53
The anxiety of being able to know what everyone is thinking.
00:54:58
I know it's especially of you like, oh, God, I don't want
00:55:05
that. I do not want telepathy or
00:55:06
whatever. Oh, it's like, OK, Telepathy,
00:55:09
telekinesis, that kind of stuff that's typically associated with
00:55:12
witchcraft. Like, reminds me of Carrie.
00:55:14
So like, is Carrie a witch? Yes.
00:55:17
OK, that was a hard guess. What else would she be?
00:55:24
I don't know. You're right.
00:55:26
I don't know. I was gonna say it was birth
00:55:29
defects. You're right.
00:55:30
You're right, actually. She's actually a mutant and
00:55:33
Charles Xavier just didn't get to her in time.
00:55:36
Sorry. That's true.
00:55:37
That's true. You know, funny.
00:55:40
Funnily enough, like I like don't like horror or anything
00:55:44
scary. And I have read Carrie and
00:55:47
watched the original movie and it is not scary and I do want
00:55:52
her to kill everyone at the end because it's awful.
00:55:55
They're awful. Yeah, like I like, I want, I
00:56:00
want to say like I, I haven't read like the Carrie novel, but
00:56:03
like, isn't it like that, that like she's like not like
00:56:06
conventionally attractive and like the fact that none of the
00:56:09
movies like, go out of their way to make her like, not
00:56:13
conventionally attractive. Like is like one of the biggest
00:56:17
like issues about like Carrie I I'm pretty sure like that it's
00:56:21
something along those lines, like interesting.
00:56:24
I've only seen the original, so I don't know.
00:56:27
We'll Ray will do homework and she'll bring it back to this at
00:56:32
some point. Like we'll we'll discuss the
00:56:35
issues that are present in the Carrie novel.
00:56:38
Yeah, but Carrie, I was like rooting for her because she was
00:56:41
like, I'm like, kill your mother because your mother is
00:56:44
absolutely crazy and abusive. She's got to go.
00:56:47
And those kids, they threw tampons at you, lock them up,
00:56:50
and they just dump pig's blood on you.
00:56:53
Like, I'm sorry, but I was on Carrie's side.
00:56:57
I don't see how that's a scary story.
00:57:01
I mean, yeah, like if you're going to do stupid shit, you're
00:57:05
going to get stupid prizes, so. Yeah, well, well, what about?
00:57:13
Wait, our our like our our like moral system?
00:57:16
It's like semi like out of whack.
00:57:21
OK. But I don't think so because if
00:57:23
you look at Carrie, at the story of Carrie, like, how could you
00:57:29
not, like, be a Carrie apologist?
00:57:33
Like, nothing. Like she was like, severely
00:57:35
abused her whole life. Like, like, I don't see how you
00:57:39
could blame her for snapping. Yeah, but I don't know why
00:57:50
Carrie just kind of put me on the I don't know how I got here.
00:57:54
This is how the ADHD brain works.
00:57:56
But like it, it sparked Stranger Things for me.
00:58:00
Yeah. And I'm like, I know we have
00:58:03
plans to talk about Stranger Things in upcoming episodes, but
00:58:06
now I'm like, there's some spooky shit going on there.
00:58:09
Is anybody a witch? And they don't have magic?
00:58:11
That's just the Upside Down, right?
00:58:13
Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't, I wouldn't consider like Elle a
00:58:18
witch. That's right.
00:58:20
Well, she also like, obtained the powers, right?
00:58:24
Or was she born with them? I don't, I don't remember.
00:58:27
Yeah. So I don't remember it.
00:58:29
Like it's been a long time since I've watched Stranger Things and
00:58:33
I can't remember if her if else powers were inherited or they
00:58:37
were the result of experimentation.
00:58:41
I think it's a result of experimentation.
00:58:48
Yeah, I don't know but they all they all think like Eddie is a
00:58:51
demon warlock and he's just a dude who plays DND so like leave
00:58:55
him alone. And yeah, and is a fucking metal
00:58:59
head like it. Eddie Munson is alive, I say as
00:59:04
they drag me away to the asylum. If Eddie Munson can be alive,
00:59:08
then Billy can also be alive. So I mean, why not?
00:59:16
Why not? Although it.
00:59:17
Didn't get like eaten by something like I don't remember.
00:59:21
I know I remember it being like pretty.
00:59:25
Definitive. Like didn't Eddie get like
00:59:29
stabbed through the chest with something?
00:59:31
Yeah, with like bats, the bats, right?
00:59:34
Yeah, maybe he's going to come back as like an upside down
00:59:41
human bat hybrid. Listen, I don't give a show what
00:59:44
they do as long as Steve Harrington is alive.
00:59:47
Yeah, listen, if they kill Steve Harrington and I say I have said
00:59:51
this every single season that I've watched the show and I've
00:59:55
literally waited for the show to come out and I have googled, did
00:59:59
Steve Harrington die in this season of Stranger Things?
01:00:02
Because if it it said yes, I would not have continued
01:00:05
watching. So.
01:00:06
That was the the main contingence.
01:00:11
Literally I spoiled it because I just, that's all I wanted to
01:00:15
know because I will. I would not continue to watch
01:00:17
it. Steve is just the heart of that
01:00:22
show. But we'll, we'll talk further
01:00:23
about Steve when we get into this Stranger Things episode.
01:00:27
But I yeah. And like, which it's hard to
01:00:32
say, like if like what? What is the line between just
01:00:39
like a person with, like, psychic abilities and a witch?
01:00:45
Like, is it like like the further practice of it or like
01:00:50
it is like a learned skill? Is it like a societal thing like
01:00:55
and? Because then then if we're going
01:00:57
to that vein, then it's like, is Carrie like actually a witch?
01:01:03
Like again, the rules of the universe are very important.
01:01:07
Yes, the the whatever world. Where's the flow chart story?
01:01:12
Yeah, right. Pointy hat cat.
01:01:17
So I recently rewatched or watched really Once Upon a Time
01:01:23
and I know like people have divided opinions on that show as
01:01:27
well. However, it reminded me again,
01:01:32
you know you have the Evil Queen, you know you have Snow
01:01:39
and Charming's daughter who has powers.
01:01:42
You have like people who have magic but they're not like you
01:01:47
know, Rumpelstiltskin. You have all those people who
01:01:48
are like magic users but not considered witches.
01:01:51
But then I believe there are actually witches too.
01:01:56
So like how is 1 subsect of magic user is a witch and like
01:02:03
the other not? Right.
01:02:05
That's like the Thor comp, the Thor question again, like.
01:02:13
Like like what title that that that you get by like learning
01:02:19
specific teachings? I think magic is just like super
01:02:25
complicated because then like you can attribute magic.
01:02:27
Like now I'm thinking of Thor brings me to like Hercules and
01:02:31
Hercules brings me to Percy Jackson and like they have
01:02:34
powers in Percy Jackson, but it's because they're demigods.
01:02:36
But like, like it's they're so many nuances to the rules of
01:02:44
magic and powers in these works of fiction that like we could
01:02:52
analyze for eternity. And This is why we have the flow
01:02:57
chart and if someone specifically says the word
01:02:59
which. Yeah Flow Chart Join our Patreon
01:03:05
for an exclusive look at the flow chart on APDF downloadable
01:03:11
version. Oh my God.
01:03:15
But I don't know anything else. Sandwiches.
01:03:18
I'm trying, I'm trying to think here.
01:03:22
I know I consume more media with witches in it because I I like a
01:03:25
good witch. I think it's hard because like,
01:03:32
if if we go into certain rabbit holes, then we start talking
01:03:35
like too much about Harry Potter.
01:03:37
And I don't think either of us wants to talk too much about
01:03:39
Harry Potter, even though like we we both could probably agree
01:03:42
that it like is like a large part of what our like childhoods
01:03:47
were, right? So.
01:03:51
Yeah, it's just which sucks because it's like, you know, one
01:03:56
person who the person behind it all shows how much power.
01:04:01
Hey, talk about a witch. So how much power?
01:04:04
It's that one. One person could wield, but it's
01:04:12
us. It's like Harry Potter is is is
01:04:14
really interesting. I could definitely go go down
01:04:18
that that I know and I really what about world.
01:04:21
It's OK, like strictly world building and like anything aside
01:04:32
other her aside, it is excellent world building.
01:04:37
It's it's really, really clever. And it's, I would say pretty
01:04:44
thoroughly defined what the rules of witchcraft are.
01:04:47
Like. I would say that that series
01:04:49
really does a good job of being like, yeah, they're witches.
01:04:52
They're 11 years old and you know, if you're a witch or not
01:04:54
at 11. So I think that's pretty, pretty
01:05:02
definitive, you know? Yeah, but did you ever watch
01:05:08
Kiki's Delivery Service? Yes, she's the cutest witch.
01:05:14
That's a witch and like that like then with that system, it's
01:05:18
a whole like, like you're, you're born a witch.
01:05:22
You're you're like, born from a lineage of witches.
01:05:27
Right, that movie up eye level. Wedding ladies like like a 14
01:05:32
year old, like fucking go into the wild like that, whatever.
01:05:36
Yeah, go ahead. See ya.
01:05:38
See ya. Hey.
01:05:38
Because you have you have a talking cat with you and he's
01:05:42
got you. But he doesn't.
01:05:43
But he does. Like a cat does, but.
01:05:47
What, like a cat? That's real cat.
01:05:51
Oh God, that that you set me on something when you mentioned
01:05:56
Kiki and now I don't remember what it was.
01:06:00
Damn it. I don't know.
01:06:04
So OK so now going down like that like that Ave.
01:06:08
Howl is a witch no of Howl's Moving Castle.
01:06:12
Yeah, he's a wizard. Yeah, he's a He's a big old
01:06:14
witch and also a bitch. I love howl because like I too
01:06:20
sometimes want to just become slime like just like lay at the
01:06:24
table and become a sentient pile of goo like.
01:06:29
No, that's, that's fair. That's fair.
01:06:31
Howl. Was on to something.
01:06:36
It wasn't pseudo Ghibli related to that that I was thinking of
01:06:38
with Kiki and now was. The anime, was there some sort
01:06:43
of little witch Academy? Yeah.
01:06:44
Did you watch that? I have not.
01:06:46
What is that? See see, here's the thing guys,
01:06:49
y'all want want me to talk about anime?
01:06:51
And Jenna hasn't seen any of the animes that I've seen.
01:06:55
Yeah, yeah, that one was really cute and like, but that that
01:06:59
also is like like a study thing. Like you, you can you can study
01:07:05
to be a witch. To become.
01:07:07
One, yeah. I remember what I was going to
01:07:10
say. I was thinking, I don't I don't
01:07:12
know how I got from Kiki back to wicked, but I was thinking, oh,
01:07:17
because you said imagine being born a witch.
01:07:19
And I was just watching wicked yesterday.
01:07:21
And and there is when the the mean munchkins are like, why
01:07:27
does wickedness exist, Glenda? And she's like, are you born
01:07:31
wicked or is it like thrust upon you?
01:07:33
And the thing about wicked that I mean, that's kind of also like
01:07:37
their magic system, I think, like are you Born This Way?
01:07:40
But this is the long winded way of me making the joke of they
01:07:46
all freak out because someone's born green, but there is a
01:07:50
fucking goat. Is your professor like like yes,
01:07:56
yes, midwife who is a talking bear.
01:07:58
Please take my green disgusting green child away.
01:08:01
Like we draw the line at green Yes, you can be any ethnicity.
01:08:08
You could be any anything. You could be a talking goat, but
01:08:13
you cannot be green. Yeah, why would you choose
01:08:17
green? Yeah, OK.
01:08:25
But like the wizard, he's not a witch because he's a scam
01:08:31
artist. But like by convincing everyone
01:08:36
with his trickery, I would give him, I'd give him the title.
01:08:41
I would give him a title of which just because of the time
01:08:43
and effort he put in his buffoonery, I'd be like, what?
01:08:49
You know what? You did it.
01:08:50
This isn't You did it. It is Charisma magic.
01:08:59
Yeah. Is Griz magic?
01:09:02
Yeah, he has. He has the Rizz Magic, the
01:09:06
Rizzard stop. Jeff Goldblum is so the Rizzard.
01:09:13
Like if anybody was, Oh my God, if anybody had the charisma,
01:09:21
it's Jeff Goldblum. But like, he's an inventor.
01:09:23
So like, would that be like the vein of like alchemy in like in
01:09:26
a sense, like where where does science begin?
01:09:29
And when does like alchemy stop? Because like I know that like,
01:09:34
like it's like the the siphoning of X like material to create Y
01:09:40
material, but it's also like, I know like in some media they
01:09:45
consider like inventing. Magic.
01:09:48
Outcome and all that. Yeah, I think that goes back to,
01:09:53
again, like the established rules of whatever world you're
01:09:55
working with. But and some of some of them are
01:09:59
super murky, like Star Wars is super murky, like like space
01:10:03
Wizards. Yeah, they're space Wizards, but
01:10:06
they're not magic. They just, they're not magic,
01:10:09
but there are witches. That do magic.
01:10:12
That do magic, Yeah. They're kind of mean, though.
01:10:19
And scary. Is that subjective though?
01:10:25
No, I think that it's pretty. I think that we could all agree
01:10:28
that they're a little scary. The night scissors are kind of
01:10:32
scary. But but I also feel like they're
01:10:36
really, really helpful when like they they needed it, like they
01:10:41
they weren't like like shitty about it.
01:10:45
Right. And they did.
01:10:46
Even after they like didn't exist anymore, they still
01:10:51
brought Ventress back to life which was pretty baller.
01:10:56
Oh. Ventress, they brought her back
01:10:59
to life to do kind of like nothings yeah, it brought her
01:11:05
back to life to not reunite with her love and just be a bounty
01:11:09
hunter. I guess like Quinlan Voss
01:11:12
deserve better. OK, He don't get me started on
01:11:17
that. Will tangerine too hard?
01:11:22
Yeah, we will, because there's lots to be said on that.
01:11:28
I think we basically have said everything we need to say about
01:11:30
witches, don't you agree? I think so.
01:11:33
I mean what we can from like the surface level of witches without
01:11:38
like diving too hard and again staring into the countless like
01:11:42
abysses of magic systems. Right.
01:11:45
And then like there's the whole historical side to you could go
01:11:49
down. Our magical girls and anime
01:11:51
witches. Damn, that's a good question.
01:11:58
Only when they had their magical girl transformation.
01:12:00
Just just in that moment they are witches and then they're not
01:12:03
anymore. That's the rule I've just
01:12:08
established. Well, whatever, I don't know,
01:12:16
whatever. But OK, so then like we're going
01:12:18
to anime. Like you have jujitsu Kaizen.
01:12:21
They're sorcerers. They're jujitsu sorcerers.
01:12:24
Like they're harnessing this, the power of like cursed energy,
01:12:29
which is basically magic. So like, are they witches?
01:12:31
Well, I guess they're sorcerers. Same thing.
01:12:34
Where does where does witch sorcerer and like shaman like
01:12:38
start and end? Yeah, like the shadow man in
01:12:42
Princess and the Frog. Like he's a witch doctor, but
01:12:46
like he's a witch. He's he's a witch.
01:12:50
That's a witch. Black magic is is witchcraft.
01:12:54
That was witchcraft, but I mean, most things that that happen in
01:12:59
New Orleans would probably be considered witchcraft or
01:13:04
vampires. The doing of one or the other,
01:13:09
yeah. I don't know why they like New
01:13:10
Orleans so much. Like the witches, the vampires,
01:13:13
they're all, they're all hanging out there.
01:13:17
I mean, it's probably like just the history of like all the bad
01:13:20
energy. You know, I don't want that.
01:13:24
I don't want it. I don't want it anyway.
01:13:32
And on that note, thank you for listening to us.
01:13:37
Thank you for listening to us for a few months now if you have
01:13:42
been, and stay tuned for more of our shenanigans.
01:13:48
We did give you some hints today on future episodes.
01:13:53
She was a witch. She was a witch, but like he was
01:14:00
wrong too. The best part about that vine is
01:14:02
he was completely wrong. Like that's the best.
01:14:08
I can applaud his his enthusiasm, because me too.
01:14:12
Yeah, stick to your guns is if I've learned anything from that
01:14:16
guy on Vine, it's stick to your convictions widely.